The ground rules: You enter the comments section, you take your chances. Don't go in until you've finished, and if you post there don't worry about spoiler tags. I might not be in for a bit as my folks are in town this weekend....but I got quite a ways in before shutting it and going to bed last night...
I picked up my copy at the party held by A Likely Story, in which they turned the small Amtrak stop down the street from their store into Platform 9 3/4 (by covering the two glass doors with butcher's paper painted to resemble brick, so you had to walk between the bricks once you opened the doors. Neat.) They then lined everyone up in houses (i.e., they'd sorted the pre-orders) and marched, post-opening-feast style, down the street to the store--complete with a cop stopping traffic for this motley procession.
Anyway, happy reading.
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16 comments:
Though there were some fairly significant plot developments (dead Dumbloedore, Snape finally appearing to have chosen sides, Harry getting it on, Horcruxes), there wasn't anything that I found that surprising, except the revelation that Harry might not be at Hogwarts for his last year. I'd always had trouble picturing how, in the last book, Harry would be able to study for exams and kill Voldemort, but it never hit me that he might just not go to Hogwarts at all.
My biggest questions about what's coming in book 7 are:
-Is Snape really working for Voldie? I reread the last bits, and it's clear that he never attacks Harry with the intent to hurt him. And he kills DD when DD is cornered by 4 Death Eaters (i.e. DD would be dead anyway, so Snape killing him only allows him to go further into cover).
--Who is RAB? (This I think I know; it seems like cheating if it were someone never previously mentioned) And how many Horcruxes did RAB destroy? That note makes it sound as though he/she was after all of them. So, does HP have to destrory some, or are they all already gone?
--Will the end of the series be happy? It's not that I think that Harry won't kill Voldie; it's that I wonder if the last chapter(s) will be protrayed in a positive light. There are some light moments in books 5 and 6, but things have gotten very dark. The only remotely positive thing at the end of book 6 was that Ron and Hermione were going to stay with Harry. Any ending where one of those three dies (or, frankly, where Harry doesn't get back with Ginny) is not a full victory for the good guys.
--Is this what it was like when "The Empire Strikes Back" came out? I was only 5, so I don't remember. But having to wait 2-3 years for "Harry Potter and the End of the Series" seems downright cruel.
Point by point, more or less:
--It did occur to me that they might not be at Hogwarts; hell, I thought it questionable that they would be there all of year 6 with the war raging and the world falling apart around them. Life going on (and gettin' it on) has been a big theme in the books though...
--I can't wrap my mind around any way that Snape isn't evil at this point. I'm going to skim the rest of the books for his scenes sometime soon, but in the meantime Mugglenet already has one editorial trying to defend your contention, and admitting that it's weak. I'm still not reconcilling what I remember of Snape's actions in books 1-3 with the thought that he was just going along since it seemed Voldemort was destroyed. Wouldn't he have known Sirius wasn't the traitor, and just was willing to condemn him on a long-held grudge? Maybe he wasn't privy to that information.
--Regulus Black? It's the only RB I can remember, and it's certainly the 'Net's favorite guess.
--An accounting of the known Horcruxes:
1) diary (destroyed, CoS)
2) Slytherin Ring (destroyed, DD)
3) Slytherin Locket (replaced by RAB)
Speculated Horcrux:
4) Hufflepuff artifact
5) Nagini (I definitely believe this one b/c it explains how Harry could see things through the snake--he's connected with Voldemort's soul)
That leaves one unknown--likely a Ravenclaw artifact--plus Voldemort himself for seven soul pieces. Hmm, "Seven Soul Pieces" sounds like a Luther Vandross EP.
--Almost certainly you won't see what you term to be a complete victory. Although I'm not sure Ginny is going to take being "sent away" lying down--it wouldn't surprise me at all if she joins up with and/or follows the trio.
One question I've always had is what Hermione's parents thoughts about all this are, and how much they know. She's certainly spent enough holidays and summers away from them and with her magic friends that they've got to feel that they've lost her, at the very least, and it would be bizarre to think that they're letting her rush off willy-nilly into all that danger.
I should get to work, but I'll post later analyzing Dumbeldore's late-in-life mistakes.
Kim and I were actually guessing that Dumbledore would die when the Order of the Phoenix "major character death" rumor was going around. So it wasn't too much of a shock for me when it happened here. (I was actually horrified by the thought that Harry pouring the potion down his throat would kill him; now that would be guilt!)
My big questions when I finished the book were all related: Who is RAB? (I have no idea, but I'm hardly an expert.) Did RAB successfully destroy the Horcrux? (My guess: yes, but no real reason.) Did RAB know that there were others? (My guess: no, based on his use of the singular.)
When I finished the book, I wasn't even considering the possibility that Snape wasn't evil. I was stunned by his Unbreakable Vow in chapter 2 and wondered if he knew what he was swearing to do or was just bluffing. I kept hoping that he was loyal throughout the book. But when he looked at Dumbledore with "revulsion and hatred" and then cast the death curse, I was convinced that Dumbledore's faith in him had been a massive blunder.
At any rate, as soon as I finished, I went and talked to Kim (who had finished the book earlier in the day). And she was convinced that Snape was still good. I don't know if she'd seen discussion about that possibility online or if it was entirely her own impression, but she made some fairly strong arguments (I'm still not sure if I believe them, though).
Her main one was that if Snape was really loyal, Dumbledore would have known that Snape's Vow (presumably taken in ignorance) meant that one of the two of them would die by the end of the year regardless. Not only was Dumbledore the type to give himself up to save others, but he knew that he was getting older and slower and that having Snape absolutely trusted by Voldemort would be a good thing. Kim also argued that Snape's only lasting harm was to Dumbledore (who already seemed near death from the potion), and that his actions may have saved Draco in the long run. It's an interesting theory, anyway, I agree.
As for what a "Full Victory(TM)" ending would be, I think I more or less agree with Wilhite. And it seems at least plausible to me that Rowling would allow it to happen. (If any of the three main characters were going to die, my money would be on Harry, actually. But if he lives, it would be pretty awful not to hook him up with Ginny again in the end.)
By the way, has anyone else noticed that answers to FAQ questions seem to pop up surprisingly clearly in the books these days? :)
Oh, and one other thing (that was driven out of my mind by the excitement at the end of the book). I was amazed in this book that Harry was actually acting sensible for once! When he saw something that seemed wrong or dangerous, he didn't just whisper about it to Ron and Hermione, he actually told a responsible adult! And he was no longer a compulsive liar, either, even in cases where he might have thought it would be helpful. That definately made the book a more pleasant read.
First off, Steve, I just want to clarify: you don't think that Full Victory(TM) will be attained? I agree with Steuard that Harry is the most likely of the three to die in book 7. I don't see her taking out Ron OR Hermione, and I certainly don't think she'd kill of Ron AND Hermione. And a live Harry and a live Ginny pretty much will have to end up together. But there's part of me who things she really might be sinister enough to kill off one of those four. That said, I think FV will come by the end of 7. (I also was disappointed that Ginny accepted Harry dumping her for her own protection. It seems kind of at odds with her character. But what do I know?)
Also, my thought about Horcruxes: what if we were introduced to one per book? Here's what we know:
Book1: ? (DD?, Harry? scar?)
Book 2:Diary
Book 3: ?
Book 4: Nagini
Book 5: Locket (in Grimmauld, when cleaning is being done)
Book 6: ring
If I'm right (and the cup is a Horcrux), then there must be mention of some cup in Book 1 or 3. I wonder if Dumbledore isn't the first Horcrux. In the meeting w/ Voldie in book 6, Voldie goes for his wand at one point. We don't know how or how long after the corresponding murder, a Horcrux has to be created. Could he have been creating one then? If yes, then he is guaranteeing that his most formidable opponent must die before he could be killed. Any thoughts?
I still think Snape could be, if not good, then at least against Voldemort. At some point, though, acting like a bad guy and being a bad guy can't really be differentiated.
Steuard, I also welcomed the non-nuclear Harry. I liked that she was trying to demonstrate that he was troubled and moody like a typical 15-year-old, but it seemed a little too much.
P.S. I definitely think that RAB is Regulus Black.
Brian, although it hasn't exactly been strawberries and cream up till now, I've got to think they can't get away clean from this point out. It'd be too pat. They may not lose one of the central 4 (Trio + Ginny), but I've got to think we'll lose a Weasley or Hagrid or Lupin or someone else Harry cares about.
As for Ginny acting out of character...I don't think she did. Remember how she got good at quiddich? The boys wouldn't let her play, but she didn't go whine to Mom. She snuck out and practiced on her own. I fully expect she'll just do help them out somehow until they are forced to let her help out openly. She was at the Ministry; she's bought her piece of this fight. You may see others from the DA (e.g. Neville) act similarly.
Dumbledore-as-Horcrux is the only way it makes sense for him to allow himself to die. You'd have to think he could have hexed Draco wordlessly, but it's also possible that his weakness for giving another chance overtook him (a classic example of evil winning because good is dumb.) I still don't think I believe it though. Wouldn't you know you, as a sentient wizard, that you had an extra piece of soul on you? On a side note, I doubt RAB thought about there being more than one Horcrux; only Voldemort had ever thought about making more than one...
I agree it was nice that Harry finally trusted some people with knowledge he obtained. I find it intesting, Steuard, that you use the phrase "responsible adult;" in the wizarding world, Harry is one month shy of that status at the end of the book. Well, adult, one assumes he is somewhat responsible.
If Snape is still "undercover," then this has turned into every "In Too Deep" mob-informant movie ever made. At some point intelligence gains are worthless if you don't actually act on them to help your side, even if it tips off the other side as to the location of the leak. Although I am going to go back to every Snape scene in the first 5 and try to square them with his being:
a) reformed
b) "reformed" to get by, until the he finds out the Dark Lord returns, and then resumes his double agency
c) double agent all along
In particular, I think you have to question in OotP whether his Occlumency lessons were actually softening Harry up.
Now that I've finally finished the book (trips to Mauna Kea causing packing and preparation that interrupt reading time although then providing plenty of time on the plane) I can give my commentary (likely to sound a little addled from jet lag and lower amount of oxygen in the air here). I think Snape has gone over to Voldy, and his treatment of Pettigrew is what convinces me. While we all know Pettigrew doesn't dserve much of well anything, when Harry let him live at the end of book 3 Dumbledore said that doing so could prove valuable. I don't think that Pettigrew would pass info between Snape and Potter, but I could see Pettigrew come to Potter's defense especially against Snape. Also I just don't see how Snape's killing of Voldemort can be justified to the younger half of the Rowling's audience. Hell, I'm not sure it can be justified to me.
I agree that something seemed funny about Dumbledore's death. It had too much of an Obi-Wan death feel to it, that made my think something was up. I can't put my finger on what it is though.
RAB I think is clearly Regulus Black. Two aside mentions (after nothing that I can remember from the first 5) early in the book, including one stating that he was taken out by Voldy or his minions which fits in with the note. I think Regulus is going to come into play in book 7 fairly big, it doesn't tie together well enough to be left as is.
Also I like the idea that we are introduced to one horcrux each book, but wouldn't the main part of Voldemort (the aspect of his soul tied to Quirrel which I assume was the part that later ended up in his new body) be the one from book one. Also, why couldn't he have made some object in Dumbledore's office the horcrux (like say the sword of Gryffindor or the sorting hat although both were introduced prior to book 3) instead of Dumbledore. Whatever object he used, would still have the aspect of being hidden at Hogwarts directly under his greatest enemy's nose (likely the last place he'd look - kind of a purloined letter method of hiding). Plus it gives an excuse for Harry and the gang to hit Hogwarts in book 7, which I think they have to for at least a chapter.
As for how happy an ending I think the main four make it out alive and I think everyone else could, but I think the ending will still be presented in kind of bittersweet "hey we won, but look how many people we lost in the process" kind of way. Or Harry dies and the book ends with the beginning of the next great adventure as Dumbledore has put it many times.
Some fuck spoiled the ending for me. Fucking fuck. He did a post on a message board entitled "Snape Kills Dumbledore." How could I avoid reading it? Fucking fucker.
Were you caught up, Mike? I thought you were only up to date with the movie releases.
I've run into a number of people who were surprised at Dumbledore's passing, which amuses me, since I think it was pretty expected (blah blah Joseph Campbell mentor dies blah blah).
But spoilage sucks.
On the Snape front, here's Entertainment Weekly's take (scanned in by mugglenet, and the HP Lexicon's chart.
The Lexicon's list of wizards only has one other "R.B." (no middle name given):
Brand, Rudolf
Captain of the Heidelberg Harriers who, at the end of a famous match with the Holyhead Harpies, proposed marriage to the Harpies' team captain, Gwendolyn Morgan; she whacked him over the head with her broom (QA).
I don't think it's him.
What kind of ridiculous blog software doesn't show the date of comments? I have no idea how far behind you guys I am, but I suspect it's several weeks. Is anyone still reading this thread?
In any case, finally finished last night. IMHO, this was a much better book, beginning to end, than OotP, primarily due to two orders of magnitude less whinig. As for the various speculations made in others' comments, I'll give my thoughts, but I think it's pretty clear I'm less into this scene than some of you.
Like about half of you, I'm desperately trying to keep Snape on the side of the good guys. It's boring to have Harry's everyday antagonist (As opposed to the perrenial Big Bad) be a bad guy in the end; plus (and this is huge), it means Dumbledore was wrong all along when clearly everyone--including some smart grownups like Lupin and Minerva (coolest name in the series, btw, along with Bellatrix)--doubted Snape's loyalty. I don't think we've ever been told why DD placed so much trust in Snape, and it can't just be that he apologized for the death of a person we know he hated.
If Snape is good, though, he's going to have to do something pretty amazing to demonstrate it, and we know he can't be the one to actually kill Voldemort, so it's got to be along the lines of helping to find/destroy some of the other horcruxes (horcruces?). If he really is bad, Harry now has two opponents that must be dealt with in the final book. Whichever way Snape is aligned, I'm guessing it will be late in the last book before this confrontation/revelation happens. Won't Harry just love getting to kill Snape, although he'll need to do a better job than at the end of this book.
This thing Brian mentioned of DD being a horcrux is extremely interesting and had certainly never occurred to me. At some level, it's not the best idea to place a share of your immortality in someone who (a) you would like to kill and (b) is pretty darn old and likely to die sometime before you, especially if you're immortal. But it does perhaps help explain Snape's actions if DD knew he himself was a horcrux and Snape is really on the side of good. All in all, it's a hard sell.
Oh, and I think it'll be a happy ending. I agree with Steve that Lupin, Hagrid, or a Weasley might go, but there's no obvious reason to me why any of the main 3+1 need to die, just to maintain a trend of killing someone important.
-A
Holy Crap--I'd love to get into this, but I have yet to read book one (hahaha--I'm a cheater--I've seen the movies). I'm stil stuck reading and re-reading all the Tolkien books to reveal the "real" beginings of the universe. (Ok, I don't really buy that, but it's a hell of alot better than the bible.)
And when the hell did the spammers get ahold of Blogger???
Let's see, I... didn't read it. That's about all I've got to say. Take care! ;-)
--shane
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